Very poignant read. My family fled to the UK from Afghanistan in 1999 not just for safety and security, but for the freedom. The freedom of speech that Britain is known for around the world. I am very proud to have been raised here rather than any other part of the Western world. This is why your piece really affected me. Because you’re right, tolerance is what Britain is about — and it’s slowly being destroyed.
I sat in abject horror as I read Jonathan Sacerdoti’s harrowing account of the events that took place at the Oxford University debate, how every single one of the team in which he participated was vilified, mocked, and harassed. This is not the noble tradition of argument and debate that we cherish, though it does bear mentioning that Oxford has a chequered past with respect to dalliances with the evil encountered most recently. It should never be forgotten that the debate on whether to fight if Hitler attacked ended with a vote that shamefully stains this entire country, for with it Hitler could assume that Operation Sea Lion could proceed apace, safe in the knowledge that the future leadership of the country would never take up arms against the Wehrmacht. Shame on Oxford University for allowing this evil to be nurtured and promoted.
Yes, isn't it the Epitome of Propaganda? Remember, Nazi Germany had labelled their justification for their war intentions as a war of ‘Weltanschauung’. That is what is actually happening. Students who are too lazy to think and are probably so indoctrinated that as a consequence, they conveniently propagate this inhuman propaganda in their echo chambers in pseudo-justifications. When I observe what is going on in my Alta Mata, I am more than concerned, I am disgusted, by the level of these future academics.
Yes, heartbreakingly awful. Someone I know has told me about a module on her OU course on public perception of the Gaza conflict. She says a presentation, ignoring the fact Jews were ever indigenous to the region, started with a picture of an ex-soldier holding a Stop the Genocide placard. It then proceeded to a long article about The Israel Lobby and how Zionists are secretly controlling foreign policy, US or otherwise. Anti-Zionism is of course not Antisemitism. Further, Antisemitism no longer exists and is merely used by alarmists to deflect attention from Islamophobia. And so ad nauseam.
While I am an American, I can understand to an extent how you feel, Daniel. The days of civil debate, freedom of speech for all and open inquiry on college campuses in the West is over I’m sorry to say. The Oxford Union Debate Society used to be the most prestigious debate society in the world. What you describe about your time at Oxford University is quite remarkable given the level things have devolved to today. The beauty of Great Britain is that it is a country where people from diverse races, religions and political views could have a spirited debate with each other and then all come together and share a beer with one another. Politeness, civility, respect, tolerance, and gentlemanly conduct in a debate; these are all British values. The moderator was impartial, the audience was quiet, polite and listened intently and both sides had mutual respect for one another and were open minded. Nor were accusations or smears thrown around. But four days ago, a mockery was made of British values and the hallowed halls of the Oxford University Debate Union were sullied by a motley crew of Jihadists and radical leftists. The moderator was totally biased and gave the pro-Palestine side the advantage from the very beginning. It also seems the folks who packed the hall had already decided how they were going to vote. My guess is a pro-Palestinian organization put out a call on social media to flood the debate hall to ensure the “right side’s” victory. The highly intense atmosphere at the debate and the disgraceful ejection of the great Yoseph Haddad, are reflective of two major problems that nearly all western college campuses have: left-wing hegemony over academia and antisemitism. It is a known fact that the vast majority of college professors are liberals, progressives or leftists and they dwarf the number of conservative, libertarian or moderate academics. Also, it has become dangerous to be a Jew or a Zionist on western university campuses. We’ve seen vandalism, theft, the shouting of slurs, fires being set, chants for intifada revolution and to take Palestine back from the river to the sea, and violence perpetrated on Jewish and Zionist students. Yes, there has been cases of pro-Israel students behaving badly and pro-Palestinian students being threatened, doxxed, harassed, etc. and anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia are both forms of hate that are on the rise too right now. But it is mainly Jewish and Zionist students who are on the receiving end of the vitriol and the violence and antisemitism is the number one most prevalent form of hate in the western world. I think the problems we see today like the one at Oxford come down to three things: the ideological capture of academia, trickle down of radical ideas into the broader society and the ascension of the 1960s radicals from the students of yesteryear into those teaching the students of today. Second, it reflects the outside influence of the Gulf States, China and other enemies of America and the West providing generous donations to universities and shaping their curriculums to their desires. Iran and the Islamists know well that the best friends they have are the Jihadist Brownshirt and radical leftist youth here in the West. They can easily co-opt these students and make them dance like puppets to their tune. It’s time for Oxford and all British universities to take action and to call the local authorities and the British military if necessary to keep order and Jihadist and far-left students in line and protect British Jews. All the students who jeered, screamed at and taunted Yoseph Haddad, Mosab Hassan Yousef and their team members should be expelled and their student visas revoked. The same should be done to the moderator. Speech codes on all British college campuses should be abolished, professors who indoctrinate their students should be fired, students who can’t behave should be expelled, the Oxford Debate Union should issue an official apology to the pro-Israel side, and universities should be defunded by the British government if these problems persist. Great Britain is a great country but right now it is going through the toughest period in its history since WWII. But I believe Britain and its indigenous people will survive. I think electing someone new to run 10 Downing Street though a good start, will not accomplish a national turnaround for Britain on it’s own. We need to see a massive reformation of British society and politics. Here are the changes I would recommend:
• Vote out Keir Starmer and his cronies.
• Elect a party other than Labour or Tories.
• Adopt their own first amendment.
• Sign a defense pact with Israel.
• Reform higher education
• Reform immigration policy
• Pull all funding for UNRWA.
• Increase fertility rates
• Bring back capital punishment
• Bring back British Rail
• Open charter cities in former colonies.
• Massively increase military spending
• Give Brexit the heave ho.
• Return Great Britain to the EU.
• Adopt colorblindness & universalism
I believe these measures will lead to a British renaissance that will be an inspiration to the rest of the West so they can turn their fortunes around!
"A humble Briton who is witnessing the hollowing out of his nation by enemies of our values." How much longer will this be tolerated? At what point does British tolerance become crippling weakness?
Daniel, I watched some of the debate on Youtube and was appalled by the lack of decorum and the blatantly obvious bias of the moderator. Seems like another example of the further denigration of British values, as you aptly point out. The only consolation was watching Natasha, the Jewish lioness, own the podium!
Well said Daniel. I feel as if I missed something profound by not hearing you debate. As I was reading, I could picture the room and feel the respectful ambiance.
I am afraid that nowadays even using the word "tolerance" gives rise to vitriol and hysteria from these intolerant lunatics who believe that heir viewpoint is the only right viewpoint.
Be the first, here on Substack to actively Acknowledge that it was the Brits that started the move to abolish slavery, I wont bore you with the ships or sailors that were lost.
And then while you are at it, at the same time as you deride England, start taking Muslims to task for their history with regards to slavery. Have you never heard of the Ottoman empire? You know the one that castrated over a million black slaves,"
If you are not ready to do that, Do everyone a favour and just shut the fuck up..
You Dear Sir are living in a dieing country. Putin Xi, and Islamists knew how to best you, they knew on the battlefield they would probably lose, and suffer a humiliating defeat. So they worked from within,over generations, planting the seeds of victory, and these seeds would be nurtured to grow and ultimately destroy you, and by extension me.
This was no Trojan Horse, no, this was done by the very institutions, the very pillars of our societies, our foundations.
The gift of Freedom of Speech, Generosity, Tolerance, Freedom of Religion, The education system corrupted from top to bottom by instilling self hatred. Loathing for ones self, and institutions. Guilt where there should be none. They have used all of these gifts to undermine our countries.
Not only have we accepted these ideas into our societies, we encouraged them thinking that we show tolerance and are virtuous, when actually we are aiding and abetting them in the destruction of our societies.
The seeds were planted globally. Look at Australia Canada the US.
If we die, the Dark Ages begin throughout the whole world. I won’t let it happen. This scumbag Egyptian President will pay for his crimes: his VISA must be revoked forthwith.
I dutifully read the essay and the various comments. Frankly I see an intolerance at least as severe as that which is the subject of complaint. Also the idea that Britain is historically a repository of wisdom and tolerance is risible. I live in a society born of British imperialism. My ancestry is Scottish, English and Jewish - my forebears emigrated from Poland in the 19th century. I have no illusions about the Empire. Nor should you.
It is unwise, uninformed and unproductive to give the British Empire its due only for the perceived injustices. I recommend a more balanced scorecard. It was, for example, one of the first nations to outlaw slavery. Perhaps consider the global impact of the Magna Carta. The list on the positive side is deep and wide.
Which other nation profited so handsomely from slavery? Portugal maybe. As for Syria it seems a non-sequitur to me. If you haven’t read Noah Feldman on the failure of Arab nations I suggest you do.
The British may have outlawed slavery but only after 200 years of exploitation. I am 69 years old and steeped in British culture in a way you could not understand.
Which other people in the world outlawed slavery until forced to by the British? Why do we hold all other peoples to a lower standard? Indeed Syria is proof that the Arab World is judged through the lend of the tyranny of low expectations.
When we "interpret the past using the lens of the present," we are engaging in a fallacy called Presentism. It is both lazy and destructive. The questions should be, "What evidence do we have about what is true and what is false? Where do we go from here? What can I do to improve things today?"
Debate relies on a level playing field. I suspect that the unbelievably unlevel playing field of Gaza where ethnic cleansing and genocide is happening, untrammeled,before our eyes , condoned and abetted by our government ( of whatever political colour) has rather skewed some peoples perception of debate. Of course who wouldn't approve the Voltairean approach of "Monsieur, I disapprove of everything you say but would go to my death to defend your right to say it"? However, while you fiddle over the rules of debate, Rome or in this case, Gaza, burns.
Yes, the Oxford Union has betrayed the sacred British Value of not calling a genocide a genocide. In today’s Britain you can no longer just force people to unconditionally support an apartheid state. Truly a shocking state of affairs.
Daniel you interprete the evidence you have seen and come to your conclusion. I do the same on my side and come to very different conclusions.I hear your view which is the Israeli official line, the civilian to combatant ratio, the assertion that the IDF is the most moral army in the world and so on. I see a complete disregard for civilian life, assertions about "terrorists" being present in just about every medical facility Gaza, I see children picked off by drones , no attempt to convoy food supplies safely with IDF protection in to Gaza and I also see at least 2 respected international organisations, the ICJ and Amnesty International who either state categorically that Israel is committing genocide or at least that there are strong grounds to suggest they are. Oh and lastly, I note that every criticism of the Israeli state or the IDF is seen as "antisemitic", which leaving,aside the fact that I think I'm right in saying Palestinians are Semites as well, devalues the value of that term. I applaud your desire to sustain informed debate. That's what we're doing here. I simply believe that you're wrong
Very poignant read. My family fled to the UK from Afghanistan in 1999 not just for safety and security, but for the freedom. The freedom of speech that Britain is known for around the world. I am very proud to have been raised here rather than any other part of the Western world. This is why your piece really affected me. Because you’re right, tolerance is what Britain is about — and it’s slowly being destroyed.
Hi Shabnam, thank-you for your important reflections and for becoming a subscriber. Fancy submitting a guest article about Afghanistan?
Thank you Daniel. I’d love to. Any particular topics on Afghanistan?
Your story, how you came to Britain, what attracted you, what's now under threat.
Or
Being a woman in Afghanistan.
Sounds good. I’ll share something with you soon.
Sorry for 3 spelling mistakes in the first two sentences.
Hapens to the bset off us.
Haha!
Thats a silly apology.
I sat in abject horror as I read Jonathan Sacerdoti’s harrowing account of the events that took place at the Oxford University debate, how every single one of the team in which he participated was vilified, mocked, and harassed. This is not the noble tradition of argument and debate that we cherish, though it does bear mentioning that Oxford has a chequered past with respect to dalliances with the evil encountered most recently. It should never be forgotten that the debate on whether to fight if Hitler attacked ended with a vote that shamefully stains this entire country, for with it Hitler could assume that Operation Sea Lion could proceed apace, safe in the knowledge that the future leadership of the country would never take up arms against the Wehrmacht. Shame on Oxford University for allowing this evil to be nurtured and promoted.
We at UCL - with a debating society of nearly the same age - have a much more honourable tradition.
Funny that they took over the icc and the un. Talk about colonialist projects!
Shalom Daniel,
Yes, isn't it the Epitome of Propaganda? Remember, Nazi Germany had labelled their justification for their war intentions as a war of ‘Weltanschauung’. That is what is actually happening. Students who are too lazy to think and are probably so indoctrinated that as a consequence, they conveniently propagate this inhuman propaganda in their echo chambers in pseudo-justifications. When I observe what is going on in my Alta Mata, I am more than concerned, I am disgusted, by the level of these future academics.
Let the fightback begin. In our Darkest Hour we will again prevail against the forces of evil.
It’s nice to see someone else calling it the Great Fight Back. From one lover of British debating culture to another, thank you for this piece.
My absolute pleasure Ted.
Yes, heartbreakingly awful. Someone I know has told me about a module on her OU course on public perception of the Gaza conflict. She says a presentation, ignoring the fact Jews were ever indigenous to the region, started with a picture of an ex-soldier holding a Stop the Genocide placard. It then proceeded to a long article about The Israel Lobby and how Zionists are secretly controlling foreign policy, US or otherwise. Anti-Zionism is of course not Antisemitism. Further, Antisemitism no longer exists and is merely used by alarmists to deflect attention from Islamophobia. And so ad nauseam.
While I am an American, I can understand to an extent how you feel, Daniel. The days of civil debate, freedom of speech for all and open inquiry on college campuses in the West is over I’m sorry to say. The Oxford Union Debate Society used to be the most prestigious debate society in the world. What you describe about your time at Oxford University is quite remarkable given the level things have devolved to today. The beauty of Great Britain is that it is a country where people from diverse races, religions and political views could have a spirited debate with each other and then all come together and share a beer with one another. Politeness, civility, respect, tolerance, and gentlemanly conduct in a debate; these are all British values. The moderator was impartial, the audience was quiet, polite and listened intently and both sides had mutual respect for one another and were open minded. Nor were accusations or smears thrown around. But four days ago, a mockery was made of British values and the hallowed halls of the Oxford University Debate Union were sullied by a motley crew of Jihadists and radical leftists. The moderator was totally biased and gave the pro-Palestine side the advantage from the very beginning. It also seems the folks who packed the hall had already decided how they were going to vote. My guess is a pro-Palestinian organization put out a call on social media to flood the debate hall to ensure the “right side’s” victory. The highly intense atmosphere at the debate and the disgraceful ejection of the great Yoseph Haddad, are reflective of two major problems that nearly all western college campuses have: left-wing hegemony over academia and antisemitism. It is a known fact that the vast majority of college professors are liberals, progressives or leftists and they dwarf the number of conservative, libertarian or moderate academics. Also, it has become dangerous to be a Jew or a Zionist on western university campuses. We’ve seen vandalism, theft, the shouting of slurs, fires being set, chants for intifada revolution and to take Palestine back from the river to the sea, and violence perpetrated on Jewish and Zionist students. Yes, there has been cases of pro-Israel students behaving badly and pro-Palestinian students being threatened, doxxed, harassed, etc. and anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia are both forms of hate that are on the rise too right now. But it is mainly Jewish and Zionist students who are on the receiving end of the vitriol and the violence and antisemitism is the number one most prevalent form of hate in the western world. I think the problems we see today like the one at Oxford come down to three things: the ideological capture of academia, trickle down of radical ideas into the broader society and the ascension of the 1960s radicals from the students of yesteryear into those teaching the students of today. Second, it reflects the outside influence of the Gulf States, China and other enemies of America and the West providing generous donations to universities and shaping their curriculums to their desires. Iran and the Islamists know well that the best friends they have are the Jihadist Brownshirt and radical leftist youth here in the West. They can easily co-opt these students and make them dance like puppets to their tune. It’s time for Oxford and all British universities to take action and to call the local authorities and the British military if necessary to keep order and Jihadist and far-left students in line and protect British Jews. All the students who jeered, screamed at and taunted Yoseph Haddad, Mosab Hassan Yousef and their team members should be expelled and their student visas revoked. The same should be done to the moderator. Speech codes on all British college campuses should be abolished, professors who indoctrinate their students should be fired, students who can’t behave should be expelled, the Oxford Debate Union should issue an official apology to the pro-Israel side, and universities should be defunded by the British government if these problems persist. Great Britain is a great country but right now it is going through the toughest period in its history since WWII. But I believe Britain and its indigenous people will survive. I think electing someone new to run 10 Downing Street though a good start, will not accomplish a national turnaround for Britain on it’s own. We need to see a massive reformation of British society and politics. Here are the changes I would recommend:
• Vote out Keir Starmer and his cronies.
• Elect a party other than Labour or Tories.
• Adopt their own first amendment.
• Sign a defense pact with Israel.
• Reform higher education
• Reform immigration policy
• Pull all funding for UNRWA.
• Increase fertility rates
• Bring back capital punishment
• Bring back British Rail
• Open charter cities in former colonies.
• Massively increase military spending
• Give Brexit the heave ho.
• Return Great Britain to the EU.
• Adopt colorblindness & universalism
I believe these measures will lead to a British renaissance that will be an inspiration to the rest of the West so they can turn their fortunes around!
Not sure the return of capital punishment will fly..
However why on earth would you want a reformed Britain re-join the EU?
They are on a par with the UN with regard their attitude to Jews.
"A humble Briton who is witnessing the hollowing out of his nation by enemies of our values." How much longer will this be tolerated? At what point does British tolerance become crippling weakness?
Tolerance is the essence of the nation. But we should not let in anyone who won’t be tolerant in return. The process is 2 way.
It Already has, and is!
Daniel, I watched some of the debate on Youtube and was appalled by the lack of decorum and the blatantly obvious bias of the moderator. Seems like another example of the further denigration of British values, as you aptly point out. The only consolation was watching Natasha, the Jewish lioness, own the podium!
Thanks for the comment Brad. It was sad to see.
Well said Daniel. I feel as if I missed something profound by not hearing you debate. As I was reading, I could picture the room and feel the respectful ambiance.
I am afraid that nowadays even using the word "tolerance" gives rise to vitriol and hysteria from these intolerant lunatics who believe that heir viewpoint is the only right viewpoint.
Thanks for your kind reflections Sylvan.
Robert
Be the first, here on Substack to actively Acknowledge that it was the Brits that started the move to abolish slavery, I wont bore you with the ships or sailors that were lost.
And then while you are at it, at the same time as you deride England, start taking Muslims to task for their history with regards to slavery. Have you never heard of the Ottoman empire? You know the one that castrated over a million black slaves,"
If you are not ready to do that, Do everyone a favour and just shut the fuck up..
You Dear Sir are living in a dieing country. Putin Xi, and Islamists knew how to best you, they knew on the battlefield they would probably lose, and suffer a humiliating defeat. So they worked from within,over generations, planting the seeds of victory, and these seeds would be nurtured to grow and ultimately destroy you, and by extension me.
This was no Trojan Horse, no, this was done by the very institutions, the very pillars of our societies, our foundations.
The gift of Freedom of Speech, Generosity, Tolerance, Freedom of Religion, The education system corrupted from top to bottom by instilling self hatred. Loathing for ones self, and institutions. Guilt where there should be none. They have used all of these gifts to undermine our countries.
Not only have we accepted these ideas into our societies, we encouraged them thinking that we show tolerance and are virtuous, when actually we are aiding and abetting them in the destruction of our societies.
The seeds were planted globally. Look at Australia Canada the US.
And tell me I Am mistaken.
If we die, the Dark Ages begin throughout the whole world. I won’t let it happen. This scumbag Egyptian President will pay for his crimes: his VISA must be revoked forthwith.
Part 2 coming
Am Yisrael Chai.
From Canada
I dutifully read the essay and the various comments. Frankly I see an intolerance at least as severe as that which is the subject of complaint. Also the idea that Britain is historically a repository of wisdom and tolerance is risible. I live in a society born of British imperialism. My ancestry is Scottish, English and Jewish - my forebears emigrated from Poland in the 19th century. I have no illusions about the Empire. Nor should you.
It is unwise, uninformed and unproductive to give the British Empire its due only for the perceived injustices. I recommend a more balanced scorecard. It was, for example, one of the first nations to outlaw slavery. Perhaps consider the global impact of the Magna Carta. The list on the positive side is deep and wide.
Hear hear.
Which other nation profited so handsomely from slavery? Portugal maybe. As for Syria it seems a non-sequitur to me. If you haven’t read Noah Feldman on the failure of Arab nations I suggest you do.
The British may have outlawed slavery but only after 200 years of exploitation. I am 69 years old and steeped in British culture in a way you could not understand.
Which other people in the world outlawed slavery until forced to by the British? Why do we hold all other peoples to a lower standard? Indeed Syria is proof that the Arab World is judged through the lend of the tyranny of low expectations.
When we "interpret the past using the lens of the present," we are engaging in a fallacy called Presentism. It is both lazy and destructive. The questions should be, "What evidence do we have about what is true and what is false? Where do we go from here? What can I do to improve things today?"
Well how you deal with the present is to understand the consequences of the past. You cannot whitewash the past to suit your prejudices. .
Well on that score we agree completely. But that's not a presentism fallacy.
Loved it
Debate relies on a level playing field. I suspect that the unbelievably unlevel playing field of Gaza where ethnic cleansing and genocide is happening, untrammeled,before our eyes , condoned and abetted by our government ( of whatever political colour) has rather skewed some peoples perception of debate. Of course who wouldn't approve the Voltairean approach of "Monsieur, I disapprove of everything you say but would go to my death to defend your right to say it"? However, while you fiddle over the rules of debate, Rome or in this case, Gaza, burns.
Genocide? What's your evidence?
Yes, the Oxford Union has betrayed the sacred British Value of not calling a genocide a genocide. In today’s Britain you can no longer just force people to unconditionally support an apartheid state. Truly a shocking state of affairs.
Genocide? Apartheid? Evidence?
The actions of the IDF in Gaza. How else woukd you characterise it?
Well it's the lowest civilian to combatant ratio in human history, so if this is genocide every single war in human history has been genocide.
Genocide is Auschwitz and the killing fields of Rwanda. You use of the term is crazy.
Daniel you interprete the evidence you have seen and come to your conclusion. I do the same on my side and come to very different conclusions.I hear your view which is the Israeli official line, the civilian to combatant ratio, the assertion that the IDF is the most moral army in the world and so on. I see a complete disregard for civilian life, assertions about "terrorists" being present in just about every medical facility Gaza, I see children picked off by drones , no attempt to convoy food supplies safely with IDF protection in to Gaza and I also see at least 2 respected international organisations, the ICJ and Amnesty International who either state categorically that Israel is committing genocide or at least that there are strong grounds to suggest they are. Oh and lastly, I note that every criticism of the Israeli state or the IDF is seen as "antisemitic", which leaving,aside the fact that I think I'm right in saying Palestinians are Semites as well, devalues the value of that term. I applaud your desire to sustain informed debate. That's what we're doing here. I simply believe that you're wrong
Thank-you for your polite response.